Ep. 026 - ICS/OT Trends and the Food We Eat: A Conversation with Mike Holcomb
Mike Holcomb
Fellow at Fluor
Founder of BSides ICS/OT
Welcome to the first episode of the second season of the Award-Winning Bites and Bytes Podcast! In this episode, host Kristin Demoranville sits down with Mike Holcomb, Fellow of Cybersecurity and ICS/OT Cybersecurity Global Lead for Fluor. With decades of experience, Mike secures some of the world's largest and most complex ICS/OT environments, from power plants and rail systems to manufacturing and refineries. A passionate advocate for education and community, Mike has built cybersecurity programs, founded the Upstate SC ISSA Chapter, awarded the CyberSC’s MG Lester D. Eisner Award for Cyber Excellence in Leadership for the State of South Carolina, and leads the BSides Greenville & BSides ICS conferences.
Join Kristin and Mike as they discuss the evolving ICS/OT cybersecurity landscape, Mike's journey as a leader in the field, and the unique challenges facing critical infrastructure. Mike also shares personal insights, including his favorite food memories and how cybersecurity connects to everyday systems like agriculture and transportation.
Where to find Mike Holcomb:
_______________________________________________
Episode Key Highlights:
(0:00:09) - Welcome and Introduction to Mike Holcomb
(0:03:10) - Unique Food Combinations and Fun Food Memories
(0:07:12) - Highlighting Food and Agriculture in OT Security
(0:12:10) - Protecting Critical Infrastructure Systems Impacting Lives
(0:17:18) - Food and Agriculture as Complex Critical Systems
(0:23:13) - Behind the Scenes of Food Production and Transport
(0:24:02) - Cyber Incidents Impacting Grocery Supply Chains
(0:30:01) - Regional Food Safety Regulations and Challenges
(0:35:10) - Educating Consumers About Food Systems
(0:47:25) - Reflections on Community Building in Cybersecurity
(0:53:37) - Final Thoughts and Mike’s Personal Message
_______________________________________________
Upcoming Conferences:
🌟 BSides ICS/OT Conference
Feb. 10, 2025, in Tampa, Florida 🌴 (the day before S4x25 Conference)
SOLD OUT! BUT we still need help with Sponsorships and Donations!
Questions or Need more information email: info@bsidesics.org
_______________________________________________
Bites and Bytes Podcast Info:
Website: Explore all our episodes, articles, and more on our official website. Visit Now
Merch Shop: Show your support with some awesome Bites and Bytes gear! 🧢👕 Shop Now
Blog: Stay updated with the latest insights and stories from the world of cybersecurity in the food industry. Read Our Blog
Audience Survey: We value your feedback! Help us make the podcast even better. Take the Survey
Schedule a Call with Kristin: Want to share your thoughts? Schedule a meeting with Kristin! Schedule Now
Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
(0:00:09) - Welcome and Introduction to Mike Holcomb
(0:01:40) - Mike’s Favorite Food and Food Memory
(0:03:10) - Unique Food Combinations and Fun Food Memories
(0:07:12) - Highlighting Food and Agriculture in OT Security
(0:08:13) - Launching an ICS/OT Cybersecurity Practice
(0:09:11) - Camaraderie in the ICS/OT Community
(0:12:10) - Protecting Critical Infrastructure Systems
(0:17:18) - Food and Agriculture as Complex Critical Systems
(0:23:13) - Behind the Scenes of Food Production and Transport
(0:24:02) - Cyber Incidents Impacting Grocery Supply Chains
(0:26:00) - Public Awareness and Consumer Impact of Cyber Attacks
(0:30:01) - Regional Food Safety Regulations and Challenges
(0:35:10) - Educating Consumers About Food Systems
(0:40:20) - Overlooked Areas in OT Cybersecurity
(0:45:10) - Building Community and Networking in ICS/OT
(0:47:25) - Reflections on Community Building in Cybersecurity
(0:53:37) - Final Thoughts and Mike’s Personal Message
-
00:00:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Welcome.
00:00:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The award-winning Bites and Bytes Podcast.
00:00:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I'm your host, Kristin Demoranville, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to the first episode of 2025 and of the second season.
00:00:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Guest is someone I've wanted to bring under the show for a while.
00:00:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
My good friend Mike Holcomb.
00:00:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Mike is one of the most recognized names in the OT/ICS, cybersecurity world and if you've been in the community for more than 5 minutes you probably know him.
00:00:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Not only an OT/ICS cyber security expert.
00:00:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
He's also a fantastic trader and coach, including sharing his knowledge with free educational content on YouTube.
00:00:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Mike has a way of making complex topics approachable and fun. And.
00:01:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thrilled that he's.
00:01:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're going to talk about the evolving ICS OT cybersecurity landscape.
00:01:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And how it connects to some of the industries that don't always get attention that they deserve like Food and Agriculture.
00:01:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So grab a snack, get comfy, and let's jump right into it.
00:01:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Well, I am absolutely delighted and excited that I finally have Mike Holcomb on the podcast.
00:01:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Anyone in the Icso community is probably going.
00:01:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because we all love Mike.
00:01:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So it's absolute pleasure to have you here with me, Mike.
00:01:31 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
No, I'm glad to be.
00:01:33 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
No, I'm happy we finally got to do this.
00:01:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, me.
00:01:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's it's probably long overdue, ultimately.
00:01:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
As I start every show.
00:01:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're going to jump straight into your favorite food and your favorite food memory.
00:01:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do not need to be the same thing.
00:01:47
Gotcha. Yeah.
00:01:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's I had to put some thought into this I guess, but I if I off the top of my head, I would my favorite food these days to eat. I am very much into like new American small plate.
00:02:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So that's that's.
00:02:01 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Of our our jam these days.
00:02:03 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
My favorite.
00:02:04
Food.
00:02:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Memory. I always go back to.
00:02:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I just have to.
00:02:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's more like popcorn and candy at the movies.
00:02:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So my grandfather used to take me to the movies all.
00:02:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Time, and so that was.
00:02:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I just remember always getting popcorn and then Jordan almonds was was my my thing back then. You can't.
00:02:24 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Find him that.
00:02:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
These.
00:02:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Other than like to order more for Amazon.
00:02:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Like.
00:02:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The craft supply store, for whatever reason, has that right, but like OK.
00:02:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Where?
00:02:37 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But yeah, we used to get.
00:02:38 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I just remember. Yeah, going to see like, you know, Empire Strikes Back.
00:02:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Or return of the Jedi and all those great movies and just spending the time with him and it.
00:02:47 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Always just.
00:02:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, kinda go the.
00:02:50 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And the popcorn and the candy so.
00:02:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Did you mix your popcorn in your candy, in the bowl, or do you keep?
00:02:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Separate.
00:02:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So.
00:02:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Jordan.
00:02:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, you had to keep those.
00:03:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Separate now then I evolved to when Jordan almonds got phased out in high.
00:03:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Ended up working in a movie theater, which is still the best job I ever had.
00:03:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And did they pay?
00:03:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Great. But you know, it's still still.
00:03:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
What?
00:03:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, the best.
00:03:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And so there we had.
00:03:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Race mats and so the race that you would mix with the popcorn was that was the best.
00:03:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Popcorns a fun one because there's so many different varieties, right?
00:03:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I was up visiting my family recently and my mom came out with this bag of popcorn that I never seen before and I was like, what is this, mom, she's.
00:03:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We call it crack and I was like what?
00:03:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
She goes.
00:03:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's it's like cheddar, white cheddar, like smart food kind of vibes with caramel, caramel popcorn together mix and I was like, this sounds disgusting.
00:03:47 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Right, yeah.
00:03:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
No, it's crack.
00:03:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's and I can't find it where.
00:03:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Live.
00:03:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So she's looking and she's going to send bags down for me at this point.
00:03:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I'm like, I really don't need this in my life.
00:03:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
This just like one more processed food I.
00:04:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Want but like.
00:04:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I've always been there.
00:04:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, you just.
00:04:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And then I know people who mix like.
00:04:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Jalapenos like pickled jalapenos in their their popcorn.
00:04:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And that whole, like spicy, salty thing.
00:04:12
Yeah.
00:04:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I could see it.
00:04:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thanks.
00:04:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I.
00:04:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I don't know if I'd be a fan and I can't do spicy food anymore, unfortunately.
00:04:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Sad and getting old but.
00:04:23
Yeah.
00:04:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I can see it, I guess.
00:04:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Ways to try.
00:04:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, I put a little Parmesan cheese on top of my popcorn. Or if I'm feeling a particular type of way, I'll actually zest a lemon and throw it on the popcorn. And you have, like, a lemony.
00:04:34
Thank you.
00:04:40
Very very fancy.
00:04:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's actually really, really damn good.
00:04:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I like so everybody should try that.
00:04:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That just set 11 and put it.
00:04:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Your.
00:04:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's amazing. Eat that.
00:04:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's lower.
00:04:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So you don't need like butter and stuff.
00:04:54 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's true.
00:04:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Report back a little salt.
00:04:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Need a little.
00:04:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You could also just be like extra fancy mic and go buy like lemon salt, but that's true because that's a lemon. Who cares?
00:05:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Everybody's got disaster.
00:05:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Fine.
00:05:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Right.
00:05:09 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It was very short.
00:05:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It.
00:05:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Was good. I'm curious now.
00:05:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, I am.
00:05:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love.
00:05:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That you worked at a movie theater because you got a customer service skills.
00:05:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Actually, this is a fun fact.
00:05:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
People don't.
00:05:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I used to screen.
00:05:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
For Buena Vista, back in the day.
00:05:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Oh really?
00:05:24
So.
00:05:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I would show up.
00:05:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A clipboard and a light up pen. And I would sit there and I would check off if it the trailers were there. If people how many people were there and yeah, it was fun.
00:05:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Did it for like, I don't know, six months or something, but when you're taking your 20s and you're working on 18 jobs and it's normal and.
00:05:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Nowadays or like. Yeah. No, I can't do.
00:05:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Than like three things at once.
00:05:46 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's my thing.
00:05:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, and I love it that you're into new American and we've had the pleasure of having dinner together. And we've had great meals and it's been good.
00:05:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Also into new American hair as well, a little bit more.
00:05:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think in terms of going out to dinner, I think that there's so much creativity in it.
00:06:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's like that's.
00:06:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thank you very much for answering that. You just brought back a lot of memories for me because I do like going to movie theaters with my step sons and we do candy and popcorn as well, but it's.
00:06:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Sour patch kids.
00:06:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So popcorn.
00:06:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, that's my granddaughter is all about sour patch kids these days, for sure.
00:06:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It might be.
00:06:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
This is sour patch kids first, and just to you know, I'm just saying, but this usually gets passed around.
00:06:23
No.
00:06:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Ask for.
00:06:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They were moving it back and forth. I don't think there's usually any.
00:06:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think it's.
00:06:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Just popcorn, but they have braces, so they.
00:06:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A little limited on how much.
00:06:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Can eat.
00:06:35
Yeah.
00:06:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah. So Mike and I have known each other for a.
00:06:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We were online buddies for a bit and then we eventually met finally and was awesome and we could go to the same conferences. It seems like we just kept crossing each other.
00:06:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Just whenever there I've seen.
00:06:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Times you see me speak a few.
00:06:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So it's it's been really a lot of fun, but.
00:06:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's nice to finally get you here and we can have a conversation around.
00:07:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The.
00:07:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That you do, and then how I constantly bugs you to add food and egg into every conversation you have.
00:07:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yes, you do. What you should. What you or you shouldn't have to, but yes.
00:07:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's forgotten a lot and it ****** me off because it's so important because we eat and it's part of our lives and for sure and you know, we just discussed how much we like popcorn in various forms and it's one of those things that it's still a strugg.
00:07:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Even in OCS, because we kind of lump suit production into manufacturing, which?
00:07:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is incorrect at all, but we should call it out separately because.
00:07:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a different thing.
00:07:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a different thing altogether, especially with food safety and things like that.
00:07:37 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Push. Yeah, for sure.
00:07:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah. What are you working on right now?
00:07:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What's what's going?
00:07:43 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because then I'll interject all the food stuff into it.
00:07:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, well, I got, you know, besides the the day job, I actually have a couple new projects for the day job, which is.
00:07:55 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And we're about to launch the new cyber security practice for control systems and.
00:08:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Floor. So really excited about that and some changes that hopefully we'll see in January moving forward. And then of course the big news besides ICS.
00:08:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
17 which is a really exciting for February 10th.
00:08:14
Yay.
00:08:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We're lined.
00:08:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We'll be in Tampa, so it's the day before the S4 conference. So a lot of.
00:08:22 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know we get a lot.
00:08:24 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Icsot expert crown as I think they'll Dale describes it, you know, and for for S4, but then also trying to make a an event like more accessible and available to folks with a focus on, you know whether.
00:08:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You just want to.
00:08:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Learn more about what icsot is.
00:08:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Or if you're already, maybe you are an asset owner or operator and you want to learn more and from a practical perspective.
00:08:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
One thing so you can take back to the office. You know, the following day to actually put right into action, that's.
00:09:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Big focus for us and you don't get that.
00:09:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Typically, a lot of lot of other conferences, unfortunately, and until he's been like a big focus for me at least, you know, for me going.
00:09:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Conferences.
00:09:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's the kind of material that I want.
00:09:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And so that's I think resonates with a lot of lot of.
00:09:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And you know.
00:09:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Not what S4 is designed to share.
00:09:24 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And so, but it's why not have an event the day before where we can take advantage of all?
00:09:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Great folks.
00:09:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know that are.
00:09:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Are in town for S4 but.
00:09:34 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Also bring bring new folks and the asset owners and operators into into event.
00:09:40 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So I'm really really.
00:09:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know the the B size community was really supportive as trying this and they typically don't have events all.
00:09:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The world.
00:09:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And they don't typically have an event that's dedicated to a particular.
00:09:54 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Niche. So they've done like a few over the years, they did a Splunk besides once.
00:10:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So hopefully this goes really well because we've already had some some folks reach out about doing versions like in the UK and India and other places.
00:10:09 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's really exciting.
00:10:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And so yeah, so I really, really hopeful.
00:10:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So it's yeah, it's.
00:10:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's incredible to be able to do that.
00:10:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think the thing that I'm really excited about with B sizes, especially when you go to all the other cyber security conferences and Mike and I have talked about this before, but we always look for the Otcs people.
00:10:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's like we have like little radars.
00:10:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We the.
00:10:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That totally relate to what we do and I realize everybody has that in their own like different sector. But there's something about us as a community.
00:10:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Actively want to see each.
00:10:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We want to be around each other and we want to have that, that camaraderie, that Community, and I feel like sometimes it gets lost in certain types of ICS conferences and OT conferences where.
00:10:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You've got so much on and there's so many things to do, and there's gonna be the partners and the vendors and everything else, but it's gonna be nice to finally have a conference that we can just.
00:10:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Going do you talk like, you know, like you wanna talk shop? Like will get into it and I love that because that's what we need. And I appreciate that the larger, bigger conferences like, you know, Black Hat and DEFCON and RSA are including more OTC.
00:11:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
In conversation, and even in different topics that are being.
00:11:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Talked about, but it's not the same.
00:11:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Actually have to explain more.
00:11:22 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Think.
00:11:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
In those environments of what we do because.
00:11:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
People still get hung up that it's just all about the data and that's not it's not our vibe all the way. You know, we're actually about safeguarding lives over the data, not the actual data itself.
00:11:35
Exactly.
00:11:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do care about data, but it's a different conversation. It's a different.
00:11:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I also think that generally speaking, OT/ICS people have more of a systems thinking vibe.
00:11:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Can definitely bump heads against others who don't have that kind of viewpoint. We look at things in a holistic space and how one thing over here will affect the other thing over there. I think that that is a different.
00:11:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think we're weird that we're the weirdos and we like, embrace it.
00:11:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Worth.
00:12:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's sort of like and that's how I appreciate hacking culture in general, because we get that we just have our own breed of culture in a way.
00:12:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And you, I'm sure you've noticed that with all of the different connections you have now and through the training, some people reaching out to you, you've realized that we're probably we're so much different than just average cybersecurity people.
00:12:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love.
00:12:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love our.
00:12:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think it's great for sure.
00:12:21
Yeah, it really.
00:12:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I mean, I've been in it cyber for.
00:12:24 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Plus years.
00:12:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Been doing OT cyber for 10:00-ish.
00:12:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
OT cyber community.
00:12:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Just above and beyond, there's there's some great people in it.
00:12:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Don't get me wrong, but it's it's.
00:12:39 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The accent.
00:12:40 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's it's just that I think it's it's.
00:12:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The people here.
00:12:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Are focused on the mission, you know.
00:12:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That really brings people together and to get kind of like you're mention it, it's okay we're protecting data or we want to keep the company from going down for ransomware which.
00:12:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
All.
00:12:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know worthy, worthy mentions for sure when.
00:12:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Very good. Thanks.
00:13:01 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You talk about.
00:13:04 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We're preventing loss of life or somebody from getting hurt or making sure food does get on your table or there's electricity when you flip on the switch or clean water when you turn the faucet on that.
00:13:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah.
00:13:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I mean that's it's it's just a.
00:13:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Other level.
00:13:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And people really aren't over that. That mission. And I think it really, really clicks and the vast majority of people in the field are are very welcoming.
00:13:31 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
There's a few that aren't.
00:13:34 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But but over.
00:13:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The the vast majority are and it's. It's really, really great.
00:13:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The city.
00:13:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love it. How we're almost infectious as well.
00:13:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love when people come to me and they say, hey, I want to change my career.
00:13:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I want to move towards Otcs.
00:13:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do I do?
00:13:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And my response always is just stay curious and ask lots of.
00:13:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And here's 15 channels you can go look at on YouTube, including ours, Mike.
00:13:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know, here's.
00:13:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The knowledge you're going to Start learning.
00:14:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I don't want people to get tripped up that they need to know, like every technical detail of everything that's out there. That's not what they need.
00:14:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Need to ask better.
00:14:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They need to be more curious about what the world is around.
00:14:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's not like they have to March themselves straight into a factory oil.
00:14:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They can ask questions about their HVAC system in their office, or they can ask more questions about their smart home.
00:14:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Where they can, you know, be more curious about other things in terms of, you know, stuff that's happening around them.
00:14:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Car is a giant IoT device for having.
00:14:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like.
00:14:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Going to have that kind of conversation, I think as soon as people start to to realize how big the OT/ICS.
00:14:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It starts to go.
00:14:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We don't.
00:14:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
At the world the same way.
00:14:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I feel like the blinders came off really quickly when it happened and.
00:14:43 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
All of a sudden, you're like you're playing.
00:14:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Game of count.
00:14:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Many IRT devices are around you go.
00:14:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a fun.
00:14:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We play on dates sometimes, which is probably means we're extra nerdy.
00:14:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That's OK.
00:14:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Right it is.
00:14:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I always say like, yeah, like in ITA lot of us can be dirty, but in ICSOT we are dirty to the extreme.
00:15:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I think especially like.
00:15:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
If you've ever.
00:15:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Met, you know, many like tried and true engineers.
00:15:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We write a very like.
00:15:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Like Moody to the Moody, you know degree, but all in a good way, right?
00:15:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Not trying to make fun of anybody.
00:15:21
Yeah.
00:15:22 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
All in a good way so.
00:15:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
No, I definitely put my hand up and say I'm a total nerd.
00:15:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It doesn't faze me at all.
00:15:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think we can save those feelings for when we're being our teenagers and everything was difficult because we didn't understand that it's power rather than being made fun of something.
00:15:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do like about the community is we do embrace that very happily. You know, in general.
00:15:40
For sure.
00:15:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So I'm so excited for B sides and I'm so excited to be part of it. What I'm excited for too is the fact that we are really working on diversifying topics and.
00:15:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Speakers, and we're hoping to draw in a different crowd, you know, celebrate diverse.
00:15:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
In that regard, and I don't mean just gender.
00:15:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Meant like nich.
00:16:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And you know anything?
00:16:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Just separates.
00:16:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I really want this to be an event that we all look back on and go wow, that was a great start, you know.
00:16:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Let's.
00:16:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Getting next year, I think we've already started that.
00:16:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What are we doing next?
00:16:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Anyways, I'm really excited for that and I'm also excited too that you know, it's starting for US 4. So it's going to be like a nice jumping point for people.
00:16:17 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Get into's four, if that's what they're going to do after.
00:16:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think to be really great in general and I'm excited to see who we get.
00:16:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
As speakers and who, what topics we're going to talk about because generally besides tends to be a little different, not like the standard, you know this is the the banner issue this happening.
00:16:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We get a little bit more nitty gritty or practical level even.
00:16:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I'm excited for that because I love those kind of talks and I also love that people get to speak through of our.
00:16:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a really friendly crowd. If you're going to try to be a speaker for the first time. Generally more embraced there than if you jump on to like Black Hat stage for the first time or.
00:16:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
For you know.
00:16:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That's a lot more.
00:16:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Or if you know you're going to be like broadcasted in front.
00:16:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A.
00:16:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
1000 people that really could stress you out.
00:17:01 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And that's I think a.
00:17:02
Then.
00:17:03 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Big part of B.
00:17:04 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Really, it's just embracing kind of the the day and the people that are there and like you said, just people from from all different backgrounds and perspectives and and.
00:17:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I'm really excited to see. I will very have some great people that have submitted talks and definitely encourage people to go to thebesidesics.org to submit talks if they're listening to.
00:17:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Before the event.
00:17:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Because we wanted to have, you know, as many different folks and perspectives there.
00:17:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, I'm so thrilled that we're doing this like.
00:17:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is why do we do this sooner?
00:17:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Why? I keep thinking, but.
00:17:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We are.
00:17:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It works right? Yeah.
00:17:51
Thank you for listening.
00:17:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To the award-winning bites invites.
00:17:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Grateful for everyone who's ever tuned in, subscribe shared, or like the show. Fantastic Start to Season 2 and a great start to the New Year.
00:18:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Help.
00:18:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Hit another milestone of 7000 downloads.
00:18:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thank you so much to all of you for listening to the show and being part of this adventure.
00:18:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Don't forget to like comment and share.
00:18:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It truly does make the difference.
00:18:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There's so much more to come, and I'm so glad you're.
00:18:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
On this journey with me.
00:18:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Now back to my conversation.
00:18:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So let's.
00:18:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Go back to the regular schedule, food talk and agricultural talk of the show.
00:18:33
I want to.
00:18:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I want to talk about how.
00:18:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Your journey with ICS and educational content and how you've been working through the various different sectors in terms of your knowledge set and obviously your your prowess on LinkedIn for sure.
00:18:46 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Mean you are an influencer Mike. Weather would like that word or not.
00:18:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know.
00:18:52
I guess.
00:18:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I know that you've been learning a lot because I definitely jump up and down and.
00:18:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Hey, by court about food and egg.
00:19:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like.
00:19:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What this past year?
00:19:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think you definitely learned a lot about Food and Agriculture from me, but I also noticed that you've been paying attention more on the media.
00:19:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Been commenting.
00:19:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You've been posting differently about it.
00:19:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is it that?
00:19:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Really learned this last year.
00:19:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
About it, we can.
00:19:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Are around it.
00:19:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know I would say kind of maybe take a step back a little bit. I you know in we talk about ICS OT cyber security, there's always these overlooked areas, fruit and agriculture definitely being one of those.
00:19:33 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Mining.
00:19:33 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Is another. We see even water wastewater. Now they've gotten a lot of visibility since the Cyber Avengers attacks that started the theme of last year.
00:19:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yes.
00:19:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Oh yeah.
00:19:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But yeah, I mean you have a lot of these off anymore underrepresented groups for for many, many reasons, unfortunately.
00:19:55 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Hello.
00:19:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And just with the, you know the conversations with you, there's actually a gentleman that has come back.
00:20:03 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
A year and a half ago.
00:20:04 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Was really fascinating.
00:20:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Was he was on.
00:20:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I feel.
00:20:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I forget his name that he was on with Andrew Ginther on the waterfall, the Industrial Cybersecurity podcast there, and he was talking about mostly, you know, the impact.
00:20:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
To farming.
00:20:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And from an OT cybersecurity perspective, of course, they were talking about like the John Deere tractor.
00:20:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Incidents ray with with Ukraine and Russia and a few other can stories that that came out of that. But so I think it was a good way to start thinking of, you know at that point and and.
00:20:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Think you had the episodes like one of your first ones?
00:20:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Cybersecurity in the wine industry, and so it's really.
00:20:54 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know any of.
00:20:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
For me, it's kind of like you're going back, you know, like you're on your date and you're looking for how many you know OT devices. Can we find, you know, IoT devices and you think in some respects for me it's more like, oh, yeah, you know, I I.
00:21:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Think about.
00:21:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
All of these places where technology is like in these different environments, you know because.
00:21:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yes.
00:21:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know what? I? You know, I haven't been on a farm.
00:21:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
20 plus years. Since you know, I went to my uncles back in Illinois, you know, and you.
00:21:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know he.
00:21:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Had state-of-the-art tech back then.
00:21:33 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
He actually was always up on those types of things, but that that was 20 plus years ago, you know.
00:21:40 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So very, very different, didn't it? Did have John Deere.
00:21:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Tractors big ones too.
00:21:47 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But you know, I I.
00:21:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But I think it, you know is.
00:21:50 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Big part of.
00:21:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know I think for me it's just like.
00:21:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Any environment I guess, until I go into it or get more exposure, right. And I guess that goes back to awareness and education, it's you just like anybody you know, just don't think about where that technology is and the impact. And then of course.
00:22:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The cybersecurity brain starts kicking.
00:22:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And then it's like, oh, I'm looking at this from an attacker perspective to see what would be possible.
00:22:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
From an attack perspective and then then of course start thinking about it from the defender perspective.
00:22:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Can we define?
00:22:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Against those types of attacks.
00:22:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So it's it's always very.
00:22:31 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So it's and it is, I guess, interesting.
00:22:34 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
A way that.
00:22:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Food and Agriculture does.
00:22:37 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Of fly under the radar because.
00:22:40 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Always. You know, think of like, OK, energy.
00:22:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
If nerk, you know and all these requirements and at least in the US, North America.
00:22:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We can think of.
00:22:50 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Okay water and wastewater is now.
00:22:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
A little visibility.
00:22:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But Food and Agriculture still, yeah, is definitely one of those redheaded stepchildren that nobody wants to talk about. You know, it just seems like it's it's it's it's at the bottom of the barrel, too, for people to get to and and admittedly.
00:23:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So like I was was one of those people as well.
00:23:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And now it's like, I mean, there was an S4 presentation last year that.
00:23:22 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Flash gate chunking head down with a gentleman and either talking about the security of trucking and how right if you want food on your table, it's got to get to the store 1st, right?
00:23:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
If the trucks aren't able to function.
00:23:39 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And drive the food to the store and.
00:23:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You're not eating, so it's very much the the same thing.
00:23:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's like, you know what I think like a lot of stuff in in control systems.
00:23:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Just until you think about it right then.
00:23:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's just you.
00:23:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's just not on your.
00:23:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So I think you know especially, you know having the conversations with you and I think it's, you know, amazing that you're out there doing the call to arms for food and and agriculture because there's, you know, I can count on maybe two or three fingers.
00:24:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The number of people that actually are trying to do that right, I think the most visible and the most vocal that's that's out there leading that charge.
00:24:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Me.
00:24:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yes, I definitely hop up and down a lot, right.
00:24:24
Yeah.
00:24:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Now, Tom, Please wait.
00:24:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
No, not only, no, that's that's that's extreme.
00:24:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Probably throw.
00:24:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Back out. If I did that.
00:24:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
No, I I really appreciate you saying all that, Mike, because people are so far removed from their food.
00:24:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They're just, we don't think.
00:24:46 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It we go.
00:24:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The store we do a thing.
00:24:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It doesn't matter.
00:24:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The people that that produce our food are incredible human beings.
00:24:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Whether it's a farm or a rancher or any of that, they are dedicated definitely to it. And I I feel in some ways really passionate about making sure people understand that there are human beings behind everything that's happening with our food and that they are. They're in it.
00:25:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It you know, it's not about making money, it's about the doing of it.
00:25:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Know the generational?
00:25:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is still there even though I know they're saying that all farmers will be retired by like 2035.
00:25:22 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We'll see.
00:25:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The trucking is an interesting one because we actually move our food more than people think we do.
00:25:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It goes from the farm to facility, needs to go to, to change it into whatever it's going to.
00:25:33
Yeah.
00:25:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And then it actually gets warehoused cold storage or just storage, and then eventually we'll get distributed.
00:25:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It actually transfers quite a bit, so if we.
00:25:43 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Trucks. We're real big trouble.
00:25:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because we can't even move it away from the farm.
00:25:45
No.
00:25:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Get to where it needs to go to be what it needs to be to get to the spot that it stores and waits for us.
00:25:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Take it to the.
00:25:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's incredible and it's it's.
00:25:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We were talking before. We were just recording that.
00:26:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There was the grocery store hack that just happened over an East Coast and it did affect the Mid-Atlantic region as well.
00:26:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They disclosed the attack or whatever.
00:26:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Cyber incidents are we should call it cyber incident because we don't know what it.
00:26:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The only reason they announce it is because they're publicly traded company and SEC rules requires them to release it to their shareholders that they've been.
00:26:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A situation with cyber, it reads like ransomware, but we don't know what it is right now.
00:26:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's interesting because I was at the grocery store this weekend and I.
00:26:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There wasn't any eggs on the shelf and I thought that was weird and turned.
00:26:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It was a cyber issue and my sister in Law's couldn't get chicken at their grocery store.
00:26:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Was no chicken and I thought, see.
00:26:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Are the little.
00:26:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That the public is not going to start paying attention to a little bit more as it continues on.
00:26:46 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There'll be a lot of public pressure.
00:26:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There were actually consumers are going to start caring about where they spend their money, because if a company can't keep their company safe from these type of attacks, you're going to take your money somewhere else, you're going to go with different grocer.
00:26:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You're going to I Don.
00:27:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Know have your own chicken.
00:27:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You can get your own eggs, but I do think that the people that do all this work are really incredible people and I.
00:27:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They actually very active on LinkedIn ranchers specifically are very active on LinkedIn and it's.
00:27:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So if you get a chance, just you know type in rancher into your LinkedIn search feed sometime and just watch what they're saying.
00:27:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Super educational.
00:27:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's hilarious and most of the time they are just average people trying to do work.
00:27:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And feed the world and it's real.
00:27:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To watch some of these people talk, definitely if you get a second, please do that because it's really amazing and give them a little bit of love because.
00:27:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
All should be thanking a farmer every day.
00:27:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What we have?
00:27:40 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, that's very.
00:27:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
They the most recent episode of Yellowstone actually had talked about.
00:27:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah.
00:27:46 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I don't know if you ever watched that show, but the if you don't watch, just say you know wife's going to meet her husband.
00:27:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
At a famous.
00:27:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Cattle ranch in Texas.
00:27:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Called the four sixes and she gets pulled over for speeding and the police officer you know, comes up to her and she.
00:28:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know the the the.
00:28:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Woman the wife driving had mentioned she's going to see her husband and he's at this, this ranch and and the.
00:28:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Says.
00:28:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
He was like, tell your tell your husband thank you very much for for what he does.
00:28:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
She was like.
00:28:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Wife is like, why are?
00:28:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, just letting me off and not giving me a ticket.
00:28:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Like I'm we're in Texas.
00:28:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Understand what it.
00:28:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
To put a stake on the.
00:28:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
On the table, you know, I think.
00:28:31 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Brings that into.
00:28:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Being able to visualize it.
00:28:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Respective.
00:28:34 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, like that.
00:28:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Not that Yellowstone eyes.
00:28:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I haven't seen the new season, the new, the continuation of season.
00:28:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I haven't seen that, but I have watched it all the way through and that show is a whole lot of Mafia murder and a whole lot of other things.
00:28:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
If you watch it, people just understand.
00:28:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The street violin at.
00:28:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But it is an interesting show.
00:28:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The failure of.
00:28:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is interesting show. I think. I don't think grantor is a totally appreciate the show because it's kind of very sensationalized and it's.
00:29:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Accurate. They're not going around murdering everybody every day, you know, like, I don't think that's a problem.
00:29:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
OK.
00:29:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But but I do like that it has showcased that life.
00:29:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Know like what it's like to, you know.
00:29:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Live in places that have conflict with you know, the environment and indigenous people and land and the government and other things. I do think it's very extreme, but I think it's.
00:29:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It does make you appreciate, you know.
00:29:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Well, first of all.
00:29:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Makes you appreciate the beauty of the country because that's gorgeous where it is and.
00:29:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Where it's supposed to be Montana.
00:29:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But you know also makes you appreciate horseback riding and the ability to do things while riding, because that's most of us just hang on, right?
00:29:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Wow.
00:29:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And you know, and cattle rearing is so.
00:29:46 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's it's not destructive to the land as people say it is and it's it's really interesting how they work with the land around them and they do show a little bit of that, Michelle.
00:29:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I I appreciate that part. At some point I probably should have a rancher on the show and we can discuss like all the things that are wrong with that show.
00:30:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
There's only a good episode.
00:30:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yes, it would.
00:30:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But yeah, I think.
00:30:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think other shows.
00:30:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Make me go. Wow, that's not accurate.
00:30:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Whoa, that's.
00:30:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They showed that I thought that was like secret, you know, that kind of thing.
00:30:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Specifically, Elsa. But other TV shows in.
00:30:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah.
00:30:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I do think that they're informative, but what bothers me too is I don't want certain things to become.
00:30:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Are fearful.
00:30:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Fearful of them, like, why are people afraid?
00:30:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Sharks. It's because of jaws.
00:30:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Right. Ultimately, because I think there's giant.
00:30:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Going to come out of nowhere and chase them around and try to kill them.
00:30:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Sharks are scared of.
00:30:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They don't really want to hang out with us.
00:30:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're in their space.
00:30:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's not the other way around.
00:30:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's kind of like, you know, a bear.
00:30:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You do things to avoid being attacked by wildlife, but you're ultimately in their house so.
00:30:46 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But yeah, that's why I don't go hiking in the mountains.
00:30:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yes, a stick isn't going to save you people.
00:30:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So yeah, it's so fascinating that TV does that for us in, like movies and things like that. And I really wonder how that works sometimes, because when you're watching certain shows or movies, I was watching something stupid last night had, and it wasn't really enjoying it actually to.
00:31:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Honest. I was half paying.
00:31:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To it, which is always the worst.
00:31:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But I.
00:31:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Man, how much money do these companies pay?
00:31:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To be featured in this like 16 times.
00:31:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Hello.
00:31:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I don't.
00:31:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Really want to talk about this particular candy brand like this is ridiculous.
00:31:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I thought you know what?
00:31:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
True, they.
00:31:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They pay a lot of money.
00:31:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Advertisement right ultimately.
00:31:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I wish that we spun our advertisement to be a little bit more.
00:31:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Hey, we should have an apple.
00:31:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Apple like or, you know.
00:31:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Kind of thing. Even though the apple industry is incredibly interesting with their premium brands and different types of apples, I I really.
00:31:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Think that generally speaking, our food system is.
00:31:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like I just, I am so curious about it all the time and I.
00:31:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So much more every day about why we, why we wash eggs in the US versus they don't wash out in Europe they.
00:31:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They are fine and they don't need to be refrigerated in Europe.
00:31:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Have to refrigerate and wash ours here.
00:31:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's because we're such a large country that we have to ship it, so we're trying to keep the bacterium from growing. That's why we refrigerated.
00:32:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Wash them because it makes it last longer in transit.
00:32:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Fascinating. Like to me like, wow. But in Europe because countries are smaller.
00:32:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know, they can, they're.
00:32:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They're not going to have to worry about bacteria like salmonella or E Col.
00:32:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, it's it's really interesting how this is, why regulations have to be done a country specific and climate specific and all these other things.
00:32:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I really think that we're going to see that in other industries, in ICS and OT the regulations being updated.
00:32:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
In more.
00:32:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To regions and more about like change of seasons and global climate change and all that other fun stuff because.
00:32:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're going to take an account for that.
00:32:43 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A risk?
00:32:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Now it's part of the thread matrix, if you will, of how we're going to do that.
00:32:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Environment social governance is going to be.
00:32:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Of our world.
00:32:53
At.
00:32:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Least my opinion moving forward and I see that in food and ag.
00:32:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
More and more, maybe that's why it's such a push down sector.
00:33:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's because there's so many facets to it, and unraveling it. It's like kind of.
00:33:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's like that ball of string because it's the most complex system on the planet, our food system, because as humans we just decided that was going to be the.
00:33:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Way it's gonna be.
00:33:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Right.
00:33:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Unfortunately, yeah.
00:33:17 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And maybe everything else just is just a little bit easier.
00:33:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I had a thought, Mike.
00:33:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I would love to share this with.
00:33:22 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I was driving back from the grocery store, ironically, and I passed by one of our big water treatment facilities in the area that I live in, and I remember I met the gentleman who runs their.
00:33:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
For that.
00:33:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Back in DC, when we were hacked capital.
00:33:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And he was telling me that they actually sell their Gray water to the data centers that are close by and it's spies.
00:33:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Knows I live in Northern Virginia and I just learned recently like 7% of the world's Internet traffic comes through here.
00:33:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, because yeah, the latest. And there's are like, right up around the corner from you.
00:33:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Excuse me.
00:33:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That's crazy to think about, like my mind, like, exploded, thinking about.
00:34:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But but I thought about the fact that they sell their Gray water to.
00:34:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
These data centers, which clearly makes this critical infrastructure even more than it was before, and I thought holy holy crap like, what are we doing?
00:34:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Very much so.
00:34:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Innocence ICS conference is just around the corner Monday, February 10th in Tampa.
00:34:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Tickets are officially sold out, but there's still a chance to be part of the event. We're seeking sponsors to help support this groundbreaking event, especially the women in ICS, reception and other conference activities.
00:34:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Sponsorships provide an opportunity to make an impact while gaining visibility in the OT and ICS cybersecurity community.
00:34:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Contact us at info@bsidesics.org for sponsorship packages and details.
00:34:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I.
00:35:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thank you to everyone who bought a ticket.
00:35:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The word and supported this.
00:35:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Event I hope to see you there.
00:35:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I.
00:35:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But I really like the post you've actually putting out recently, Mike, the the kind of challenge the the kind of the status quo because you put it in such a way that it's like, hey, what are we doing?
00:35:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Ask questions you're like, hey, what's?
00:35:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do you do?
00:35:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What's?
00:35:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like, what do you think about things? Am I missing anything?
00:35:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I wish more people did that because you get great engagement because of it.
00:35:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And people talk about it.
00:35:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I can't imagine what you're like, DMS look like.
00:35:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Probably just come at you from all angles like.
00:35:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's it's interesting.
00:35:47 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I think though you mentioned you like what the comments, it's the best place where you can learn.
00:35:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Much. And that's why I also.
00:35:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Oh man.
00:35:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
When I do the online.
00:35:55 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Because you get.
00:35:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Usually get.
00:35:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know 1-2 hundred people from interest all.
00:36:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The.
00:36:01 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And they work in all different industries and they have all different backgrounds. And you have someone who's, you know, brand new the.
00:36:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
OT cyber, they might even be brand new to it.
00:36:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And then you have somebody that's been working.
00:36:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
In OT and maybe like.
00:36:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Uh.
00:36:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Serial, you know, facility for 30 years like for Kelloggs, right?
00:36:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Then just everything in in between.
00:36:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So it's really, really cool and you can and you get that in the comments as well.
00:36:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So you know, you get a lot of going back and forth and whether it's, you know, you get someone like Joe Weiss who's?
00:36:38 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Like the engineers, engineer, right?
00:36:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Oh yeah, easy og. He's the OG.
00:36:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know one of right.
00:36:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, he pops.
00:36:46 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
From from time to time, you know and then, but you also get, you know people.
00:36:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thing.
00:36:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
People that are brand new asking.
00:36:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Really good questions.
00:36:55 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And then you have other people that.
00:36:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That chime in sometimes.
00:36:58 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, there's. I had one the other day where somebody just researchers sometimes come across a little.
00:37:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I don't.
00:37:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
They just kind of come across like they know everything.
00:37:09 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Was just like, just take a.
00:37:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Back like I realized, like the more you know, I'm.
00:37:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I'm definitely at that age in life where I'm like the more I learn you.
00:37:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The more I realize I know nothing.
00:37:20
Yeah.
00:37:21
Yeah, you know, it's.
00:37:22 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But yeah, it's.
00:37:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The common sections are are great for an uncaring post.
00:37:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I'm sure my.
00:37:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, loves when someone's.
00:37:31 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Oh, this is a great post, but yeah.
00:37:33 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You get like a good.
00:37:35 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Back and forth like and you can actually like look at something from somebody elses perspective or learn something new, right?
00:37:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's.
00:37:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Even goes back.
00:37:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I didn't think about food, man, because I haven't worked in food in AG.
00:37:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Somebody jumps in there talking about, yeah, this is how this works in food, manic or any other sector, it's like.
00:37:54 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, that's, you know, it's just something I haven't been exposed to and that's one of the cool things about ICS and OT is every environment is is unique.
00:38:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Everything is, you know, every environment is different.
00:38:03
Oh.
00:38:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You just always.
00:38:07 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Learning and then you go to a.
00:38:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Environment or new sector?
00:38:10 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's all completely new.
00:38:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, or to a large to a large degree so.
00:38:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So yeah, the comments can be a really great place to learn, and the DMS are kind of the same.
00:38:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Get you know, people from all all walks of life, from all over the world.
00:38:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Know it's a way.
00:38:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
To reach out, you know, and ask for help.
00:38:28 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's like, yeah, no.
00:38:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That definitely help not giving away state secrets, you know and versus. You know, I get a lot of folks, you know, how do I get, you know, started in the community and that's where I pointed to my YouTube course or the.
00:38:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Books that they put together where they can download those.
00:38:46 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, and I've, you know, had had, you know, seesaws for some of the world's largest control system environments reach out and wanted to jump on a call. And it's really, you know, it's really interesting in an area kind of had an idea of this from my day.
00:39:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Where we.
00:39:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Design and build some of the world's largest control system environments where doesn't matter if it's a huge plant for one of the world's largest companies or like some mom and small mom and pop shop manufacturing.
00:39:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
A lot of the, I mean.
00:39:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
A. The basics of Icsot cyber are are the basics.
00:39:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And you wanna?
00:39:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I.
00:39:22 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The fundamentals, no matter the size or complexity of of the environment and it doesn't have.
00:39:27 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Be complex.
00:39:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
But but and at the end of the day, most most environments they they share the same same problems.
00:39:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And same issues.
00:39:37 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It's just unfortunate and because this is something we don't we see in it, but we see it much more amplified in the icso T world because yeah, we realize like in it you have the banks right where they have.
00:39:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
What happened?
00:39:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Son-in-law works at a a big paint, right? They have 3000 people on their cybersecurity team.
00:39:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's more than most companies have as just their overall employees, right?
00:40:04
OK.
00:40:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So you do have the companies out there and this is the same in ICSOT, but much more desperate as far as.
00:40:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know you.
00:40:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Sure you have a.
00:40:15 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Or BP or Saudi Aramco, but have.
00:40:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Right. The huge teams they have.
00:40:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You're very mature cyber programs, right?
00:40:24 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
They have.
00:40:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Team members and their resources to secure their environments.
00:40:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And then on the.
00:40:30 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
End of the spectrum, which is most environments.
00:40:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You have a lot of small mom and pop shops, whether it's water, Food and Agriculture, mining, manufacturing, which is of course big here in the Carolinas and they don't have.
00:40:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The resources to have somebody dedicated to OT Cyber, let alone probably OT at all.
00:40:50
I.
00:40:50 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Don't have an IT cyber.
00:40:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
They might not even have an IT person.
00:40:54 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
At all either.
00:40:57 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And so it's yeah, we see that in it. But at the same time like it, if you one it environment to another, they're pretty cookie cutter for the most part.
00:41:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We don't have that in in ICS OT.
00:41:11 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You go into a power plant versus a water treatment facility versus a mine versus a manufacturing plant versus I mean the list goes on and on and on.
00:41:22
And it's.
00:41:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Everything is, is is always.
00:41:26 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Different.
00:41:27 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Definitely some similarities for sure and how we defend those environments, but the processes and how they operate, right? It's very different standing in a petrochemical facility versus that facility that catalogs you know uses to to make cereal.
00:41:29
Would.
00:41:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
So yeah, so it's and you just see this big separation between the you know the haves and the have nots and in in icsot there's very few.
00:41:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Haves and there's so many that that just don't have the resources to do.
00:42:01 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The.
00:42:02 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Basic fundamentals of of what they of what they need.
00:42:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah. And we as much as we're technical, I think OT requires us to understand people in process.
00:42:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
How are they working with the equipment that they're?
00:42:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because they're going to circumvent it anyways. You know, if they have to.
00:42:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I've heard so many stories, even on air about.
00:42:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Users doing silly things around OT stuff and and it's it's I think that's something that we all share is we've all got those stories of wow that happened. OK. And we also are used to running small budgets, bubble gum and shoestring type operations.
00:42:25
Yeah.
00:42:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We get that, you know, and I think that's a lot. What separates us from the IT side of the House too, because I mean, they don't always get the biggest budgets either, but they get a little bit more.
00:42:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We do because of infrastructure.
00:42:51
For sure.
00:42:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I I.
00:42:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think that's something that's interesting and I've been having this conversation a lot in the food space, especially with food.
00:42:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
People.
00:42:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
When are we going to make food safety not a cost center, but a profit opportunity center.
00:43:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
When are we going to take cyber security and do the same thing? And I said.
00:43:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's going to take a.
00:43:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Of people, probably.
00:43:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know, getting help.
00:43:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Before that.
00:43:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I don't mean to be mean.
00:43:13 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I don't.
00:43:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It just realistic to say it's just real and I hope we as OT people we all kind of clinch a little bit because we don't want.
00:43:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That because we know how devastating.
00:43:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It could be if something happened no matter what sector you're in, and if the local community that's going to suffer the most the site, the the people around that site will be the ones that will suffer the burden. And I think that's something I always.
00:43:27
Yeah.
00:43:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
About.
00:43:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Did a little investigation on you that your state like because I was like, I know there's a lot.
00:43:43 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Food and AG there.
00:43:44
Yeah.
00:43:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You guys are actually a pretty big producer of turkeys.
00:43:48 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Gobble, gobble, gobble.
00:43:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A big I know.
00:43:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You guys actually produce a lot of turkeys and I didn't either, because I this again.
00:43:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Would I know that?
00:43:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I know the self spin on poultry that I didn't specifically know.
00:43:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
For you.
00:43:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Chicken is huge. Yeah, definitely for sure.
00:44:01
Yeah.
00:44:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Big, but like turkeys are bigger for you.
00:44:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Which is hilarious. 'cause turkeys are bigger.
00:44:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah.
00:44:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Pun.
00:44:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So you know you probably.
00:44:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You wouldn't have to go too far away from where you live really, to see the agriculture and state.
00:44:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I mean, I know when you drive up and down you see quite a bit of it anyways and it's it's amazing how much agriculture is tucked into.
00:44:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We.
00:44:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But we just ignore it, you know, because it's just part of the infrastructure around us. It's not it.
00:44:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A power.
00:44:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Do you really see your, I mean?
00:44:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Windows power lines because we're paying attention to that kind of stuff, but.
00:44:33
Yeah.
00:44:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We don't really pay attention to like a farm. You know, we go buy it or what crop is in the field. And I always wonder like that.
00:44:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I'm like, what crop is that?
00:44:41
Oh, is that?
00:44:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What is?
00:44:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know, I get excited because I'm like, yay, they're moving. The other day, we were driving up to the new House and it's in an agricultural space now, which I'm so excited for it.
00:44:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Saw a couple columbines going down the street.
00:44:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They were moving them between fields and.
00:44:54
Again.
00:44:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And it was.
00:44:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Was.
00:44:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It was a fun moment.
00:44:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I'm sure.
00:45:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But yeah, so.
00:45:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So when you next time you go to the store, when you're having Turkey, you can think yes, probably came.
00:45:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
My state that's.
00:45:09 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I think that local community aspect is super important, especially since I know you do a lot with, you know in your state and state and around the.
00:45:17 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That particular part.
00:45:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The South and I think it's important to know what's going on in your state and I I.
00:45:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To have more conversations on local levels as well as national and international.
00:45:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Think sometimes we focus too.
00:45:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Bigger problems. We boil that ocean, but we really just need to sit down and.
00:45:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Tea or hot chocolate or whatever your drink of choice is.
00:45:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I think that's super.
00:45:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So I love what we're doing with.
00:45:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because it makes it local, you know, and personal because it's it's us.
00:45:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
For sure.
00:45:45 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I think the nice thing about B sites is just everybody can come and just hang out for the day and just share and learn and just kick back, you know, relax and take it all in.
00:45:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, it's not a, it's not super.
00:45:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The event like it's serious, like we're there, but like it doesn't.
00:46:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Doesn't have to take itself seriously. It's just.
00:46:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
As much people.
00:46:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Together, talking and learning really cool things and or.
00:46:09 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, there's other things that I've just taken for granted as well, so.
00:46:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Well, yeah. I mean, like our food system, we both have taken it for granted for sure.
00:46:16 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Well, I think that's everybody, right.
00:46:18 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I mean, I didn't even think about really cyber in like a power plant or water until you know Stuxnet, which was really weird and where I started asking the questions like well, wait a minute, how does this work in a power plant? Like I have no clue.
00:46:34 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know it's and then you know.
00:46:36 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's how you know how I got started down that road.
00:46:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, I love it that you've carried it forward to help other people get down their journey as well, whether it's your YouTube channel or your posts online or any of that stuff, I think.
00:46:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Constant dialogue and making a friendly space for people to land is super import.
00:46:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I always send people towards a YouTube channel when they're like, hey, how can I learn more about this? I'm like.
00:46:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
96 hours worth of content. Enjoy for free.
00:47:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thank you for doing that.
00:47:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
No, I think it's great because you've put it.
00:47:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Made it approachable, it's.
00:47:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Scary, you know?
00:47:13 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That was the.
00:47:14 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
It was like this is the class I you know the main class there is is the getting started course.
00:47:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Is the class I wish I had when I was getting started.
00:47:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Because you know, it's like, what are these terms and how they fit together and?
00:47:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
No, it doesn't have to be scary. And you can actually learn this. And don't let you know other people that in the industry that might tell you that you can't or that you don't belong there or you know the list can go on.
00:47:41 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know there are.
00:47:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Folks.
00:47:42 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That'll tell you, yeah.
00:47:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know you don't belong here, but if you want to be here, you know you believe in the mission, then you absolutely.
00:47:51
Long hair.
00:47:52
Yeah.
00:47:53
Yeah.
00:47:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I don't think you should let anybody deter you anyways.
00:47:58 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I definitely feel that people have definitely asked questions like oh, you don't know, you're talking.
00:48:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You haven't been to this or that whatever thing.
00:48:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
My response back is you have.
00:48:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Please enlighten me because I would love to learn.
00:48:09 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, that's the thing. Is like, OK, if you you're sure? OK. Sure. I haven't gone to this event or no, I haven't worked in like this type of environment or.
00:48:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah. Why don't you share with me, you know, help me understand instead of just sitting there and complaining or, you know, saying mean things.
00:48:27 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Mean it's yeah.
00:48:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Otis people are kind. That would pick up the shovel and go shovel out your driveway. If you had a snow storm or help you clean up your yard, if there was a hurricane or.
00:48:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Those type of people were the doers.
00:48:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is what we do.
00:48:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're not.
00:48:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Going to sit in a meeting and have.
00:48:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Discussion about it.
00:48:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You know, we want to reaction.
00:48:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're always going to be action people, and that's probably why we've always been noted as the weirdos.
00:48:50 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because we're going to go do things.
00:48:53 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I have this awesome conversation right before S4 last year. 'cause you can chat on the little app that they have.
00:48:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We were talking about IoT farming, indoor farming and like vertical farms and I have I have some Internet connected.
00:49:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Growing things like you can put the little like seed into the in the, and then there's the light that grows on it kind of thing. Indoor farm, whatever it's called.
00:49:19 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Can't think of the name of it off top of my head, but we.
00:49:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Talking about how you can put a Raspberry Pi.
00:49:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Trigger it to water and all these other things that we got this, like, completely nerdy conversation about this. And I couldn't believe, like, how much people have taken their hobbies.
00:49:29
OK.
00:49:34 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And incorporated their OT knowledge into it and have basically started automating their entire house and it's.
00:49:39 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So.
00:49:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I'm just like here for it.
00:49:43 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
There's a few people out.
00:49:44 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
There that, yeah, especially you see on LinkedIn that they've come to some pretty interesting extremes.
00:49:50 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, that's like their hobby.
00:49:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Then.
00:49:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Have a lot of fun with it so.
00:49:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, and I love.
00:49:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
How some people are thinking even like further with it, they want to take like OT labs and they want to create like a greenhouse. They want to show how that.
00:50:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And then.
00:50:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Want to do the cars?
00:50:04 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They want to do the other things and that.
00:50:06 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Important and so.
00:50:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like I'm hoping that the ICS village will eventually expand there too.
00:50:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
They can have a point.
00:50:12 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Like Greenhouse, if all of them.
00:50:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Something like.
00:50:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because it would be pretty easy to do and show ultimately, and I'm not volunteering.
00:50:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Please don't hear that.
00:50:22 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I am not tribute for that.
00:50:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Called Mike.
00:50:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Taco Tom's.
00:50:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I really appreciate.
00:50:29 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I know this is a little.
00:50:30 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Different from the average show that I.
00:50:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
This is just more of a conversation around OT and how we can we can better serve it and.
00:50:34
Yeah.
00:50:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Said I was.
00:50:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You've.
00:50:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Such a good sport, 'cause. I'm always giving you hell.
00:50:40 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Come on, Mike. What about?
00:50:41 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
What about agriculture?
00:50:45 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But I think that.
00:50:46 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Great, because you've actually I've noticed.
00:50:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Start uncomforting so much more you talking about other things that are even.
00:50:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
The purview.
00:50:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You were before even the last year.
00:50:54 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And it's.
00:50:55 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And I love that.
00:50:56 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You're so.
00:50:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You want to learn and you about community build.
00:50:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So that we need more of that, we need less of the the buzzing noise and.
00:51:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Community around us.
00:51:05 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, for.
00:51:06 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I think that's the only way we we.
00:51:08 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We always know the attackers are going to be always ahead, you know, and it's just it goes back.
00:51:12 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
There's, there's definitely the the few haves in in ICS, OT and so many you know are the the have nots.
00:51:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
In my day job I get.
00:51:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Work.
00:51:21 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know the haves which which is which is great.
00:51:25 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
You know, you don't have to worry about things like budgets.
00:51:29 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And at the end of the day, the vast majority of environments out there are the have enough.
00:51:35 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And they're the ones that are going to be impacted or you know, they're the ones that are going to get hit with ransomware and they're going to lose water for maybe a couple 1000 people for just a couple days.
00:51:35 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
That's true.
00:51:47 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
That's still a real world impact.
00:51:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Then how?
00:51:49 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
How does that you know those impacts?
00:51:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Ripple out.
00:51:53 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And attacks are only going to get worse.
00:51:55 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Seen right.
00:51:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
They're just continually increasing. The impacts are becoming.
00:52:00 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
And more.
00:52:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a lot more.
00:52:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
There's a lot more aggression and a lot more targeted aggression in specific sectors.
00:52:08 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So I guess watch this space. I've been saying this for a while, but it's definitely going to be 1 to watch and it's going to affect other sectors in critical infrastructure sectors as well as OTS systems and other places.
00:52:20 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is a great example you brought.
00:52:21 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Up already?
00:52:23 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It will be interesting to see how communities respond to this and how we can how we.
00:52:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Through this?
00:52:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Because the knowledge sets even for us as an OT community is still small.
00:52:31 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Still a small.
00:52:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
We're not this huge force workforce really, I mean.
00:52:36 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But I think we all have the right attitude about it, which is good, but also I want to say before you go, Mike, that I'll put the link in the show notes, but he has an ICS OT coloring book and it's awesome.
00:52:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So.
00:52:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It teaches you a lot.
00:52:48 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's not just like this proprietary calling book goes whatever.
00:52:52 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's legitimately teaching you what things are based on the alphabet or things like that. So Mike?
00:52:57 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, I like it.
00:52:58
I think it's.
00:52:59 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I mean, I think it's fun.
00:53:00 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Should.
00:53:01 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Able to make it fun and memorable, right?
00:53:03 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It's a lot of information, but.
00:53:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I love.
00:53:05 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
You did that when you posted that.
00:53:07 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Literally squealed.
00:53:08
I was like, yay Mike.
00:53:10 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So I'll put in the show notes for.
00:53:11 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
So you can download it is for free, but I do think you should make it for a find it.
00:53:16 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
And put it for swag, because I think it's awesome.
00:53:17 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, I did that actually, right.
00:53:19 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
We met in.
00:53:20 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, because that's when I.
00:53:23 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thanks.
00:53:23
Yeah.
00:53:24 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It wasn't my fault.
00:53:25 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I didn't do it.
00:53:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I wasn't.
00:53:26 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I've already had it twice, but I only get in Europe so.
00:53:32 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
The worst place.
00:53:33 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Yeah, alright, but still anyways Mike, thanks for being here.
00:53:37 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Really.
00:53:38 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
It and please do reach out to him if you have any questions or if you want to get to know him.
00:53:42 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Is a family person.
00:53:44 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Trust me, I know that Mike will respond to messages.
00:53:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
As.
00:53:47 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
But everything will be in.
00:53:49 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Show notes that we discussed and final thoughts.
00:53:51 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Of.
00:53:51 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thanks.
00:53:52 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
I appreciate it and thanks everybody for listening in.
00:53:53
Course.
00:53:56 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah, we'll just keep finding the good fight.
00:53:59 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Yeah. Feel free to reach out anytime.
00:54:02
Great.
00:54:02 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thanks so much.
00:54:03 Mike Holcomb (Guest)
Thanks.
00:54:13
I.
00:54:14 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
Thank you for.
00:54:15 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
To this episode of the Bites and Bites Podcast.
00:54:18 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
A huge thank you to Mike for sharing his expertise and insights with us. If you enjoyed this episode, please like comment and share it with your network.
00:54:27 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
I have so.
00:54:28 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
More planned for this season and I cannot wait for you to join me on this journey.
00:54:32 Kristin Demoranville (Host)
As always, stay safe. Stay curious and we'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
00:54:48
Yeah.
