Ep. 023 - Cybersecurity’s Role in Modern Food Defense with Radojka Barycki
Radojka Barycki
Director, Training & Consulting
Safe Food Alliance
In this episode of the Bites and Bytes Podcast, Kristin Demoranville is joined by Radojka Barycki, Director of Training and Consulting at Safe Food Alliance and a food safety expert with nearly 25 years of experience. Together, they explore how cybersecurity and food safety are becoming inseparable in today’s technology-driven world. Radojka shares her perspectives on emerging challenges like AI and traceability, the role of proactive strategies in protecting global food systems, and why trust is the foundation of food safety. With stories from her personal journey and actionable insights for industry professionals, this episode sheds light on how innovation can both secure and transform the food industry. A must-listen for those passionate about food safety, technology, and consumer protection!
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Episode Key Highlights:
(0:02:09) - Food Defense and Cybersecurity Collaboration
(0:03:20) - Awareness of Cybersecurity Threats in Food
(0:05:55) - Personal Risk Assessments and Security Mindsets
(0:11:26) - Integrating Cybersecurity in Food Safety Audits
(0:13:37) - Vulnerabilities in Automated Food Processes
(0:16:17) - Challenges in Traceability and AI Adoption
(0:19:00) - Reactive Policies vs. Proactive Prevention in Food Safety
(0:22:28) - Impacts of Food Safety Incidents on Consumer Trust
(0:27:56) - Resources for Food Defense and Risk Assessment
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Show Notes:
Traceability rule:
Food Adulteration:
Food Safety Modernization Act (FSMA):
Food Defense:
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-defense
AI for Traceability:
Carrot Juice Cotulism Incident 2006:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/botulism/fourth-botulism-case-linked-carrot-juice
Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point (HACCP) & the Seven Principles:
https://food.unl.edu/article/haccp-seven-principles
Peanut Corporation of America and FSMA:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1109388
Boars Head Incident 2024:
McDonald’s Onion E. coli Incident 2024:
Spinach E. coli Outbreak 2006:
https://archive.cdc.gov/www_cdc_gov/ecoli/2006/spinach-10-2006.html
Tesla products mentioned: Cybercab, Robovan, Bot
https://www.tesla.com/we-robot
Satellite made of wood called LignoSat (Japanese):
FDA:
Food Defense Plan Builder:
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-defense-tools/food-defense-plan-builder
Food Defense Mitigation Strategies Database:
https://www.hfpappexternal.fda.gov/scripts/fooddefensemitigationstrategies/index.cfm
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Listen to full episode :
Episode Guide:
(0:02:09) - Food Defense and Cybersecurity Collaboration
(0:03:20) - Awareness of Cybersecurity Threats in Food
(0:05:55) - Personal Risk Assessments and Security Mindsets
(0:11:26) - Integrating Cybersecurity in Food Safety Audits
(0:13:37) - Vulnerabilities in Automated Food Processes
(0:16:17) - Challenges in Traceability and AI Adoption
(0:19:00) - Reactive Policies vs. Proactive Prevention in Food Safety
(0:22:28) - Impacts of Food Safety Incidents on Consumer Trust
(0:27:56) - Resources for Food Defense and Risk Assessment
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00:00:00 Kristin Demoranville (host)
We're just going to jump straight into it. Favorite food and favorite food memory. They do not need to be the same thing.
00:00:05 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So my favorite food actually is a dish from Venezuela called Pajon Criado, which is dish that have white rice shredded beef. That is this done with a tomato sauce and black beans and the famous.
00:00:25 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Along with plantain. So it's a very rich dish, and I would say that I associate my best memories with food around that dish because that's, you know, part of the culture that I grew up, not to mention that ate us. We we ate that like breakfast, lunch and dinner.
00:00:29 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Sounds it.
00:00:45 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Because it's our national bread, good and good. So yeah.
00:00:51 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Wow, I am. I can appreciate it all up to the plantains. I'm actually allergic to bananas, so I can't have them. I I feel. I mean I it is very difficult at times to have an allergy to bananas and then deal with it, but I can't eat plantains even though they're more starchy like potatoes. I just can't eat them. So tragedy. But other than if it you could remove those off, I would be right there.
00:00:55
No, no.
00:01:11 Kristin Demoranville (host)
For it.
00:01:13 Kristin Demoranville (host)
What?
00:01:15 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's alright. Why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience?
00:01:18 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
OK, so my name is Radhika Brisky and I am a food safety professional and I currently work for a company called Safe Food Alliance. As a director for training and consulting.
00:01:31 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Amazing. And you've been you've been doing this for a little bit, right? This is you've been in food safety for how long now?
00:01:37 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
For going on 25 years.
00:01:40 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, it's a long time. Just as long as I've been in cybersecurity at this point.
00:01:45 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Like my kids will say.
00:01:46 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Mom, that's a quarter of century.
00:01:49 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Ohh thanks kids. That's nice. Geez, kids are that's great. And we had the privilege of sharing a stage together at the Food Safety Consortium. We had a great time. It was a bit of a rush presentation as I had to catch a flight. However, we managed. I think we did really good, good and I.
00:01:53 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Exactly.
00:02:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yeah.
00:02:07
Yes.
00:02:09 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah. So I would love to hear your thoughts on our presentation and the conference. And just for context for those who were not at the Food Safety Consortium, we spoke about food, defense and cybersecurity being allies together in the fight for all things that are food.
00:02:24 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And that we eat daily.
00:02:26 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yes. So I believe that the presentation went well. We have a decent side audience that I think that as we spread awareness of how technology.
00:02:39 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Is not only increasing to our benefit in the food industry, it also poses a threat and that we don't need to be afraid of it and we just need to tackle it. We need to be preventive and I believe that during our presentation we were able to convey that message about preventing.
00:02:58 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
This kind of.
00:03:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Trends in the food industry, as they have been happening now for quite some time and people do not. I don't believe at this point have the awareness of those incidents to be honest with you as much as I speak with people in the industry about cyber security and to defense, people just look at me like, where did that come from?
00:03:11 Kristin Demoranville (host)
I agree.
00:03:20 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And so I explained to them like looks and they have been incidents. You know, we get more automated. It's not any more like the phishing e-mail or anything like that. We have to be aware that anything that is hooked to the Internet, the cloud or anything is accessible to these criminals and we have to put, you know gates in place. And so as I explained that to them.
00:03:41 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
They're like, oh, oh, oh.
00:03:44 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And so I think that the presentation raised the awareness I found interesting that among the audience, there was a lady that was from Afton and I went to the follow up conversation or presentation that she had. I believe it was the next day where she.
00:03:55
Though.
00:04:04 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And another company are working on a process to collect data for traceability and they were talking about technology. So I think that, you know, having her in the audience, she was actually getting pointers as to, OK, so how technology is going to affect.
00:04:23 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
You know, food, defense, whatever I'm doing or working on the project. So I think again, people are seeking that that understanding and us speaking to it openly and more frequently will bring that awareness to the industry, which I think is just in the learning stages at this moment.
00:04:42 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, I definitely think it's an only earnest.
00:04:44 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Piece right now, maybe a bit of education as well, but yeah, I do. I really love when I watch people have the light bulb moment of the connection like, oh, yeah, this really is together and we really need to care about this and it's it's beautiful when it happens because it's very obvious to you and I. But the rest of the community is like, great. Now what? One more thing I've gotta add to my concern.
00:05:04 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And it's like and I.
00:05:05 Kristin Demoranville (host)
It's not an I. It's not like we don't want to burden people, right? It's just an awareness moment. Like, hey, if you're touching technology that touches food should probably add it to your food safety strategy. That's all we're asking. We're not asking you to boil an ocean. We're just asking you to, you know, make that cup of tea in your facility. Right. I definitely can appreciate all that you just said and something that I really liked during the presentation.
00:05:25 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And you made it personal when you were talking during your part, which I really I love, because we can sit up there all day long like little robots and be like, you know, here's your security awareness talk, which is as we all know, kind of boring. I don't know why it's so boring, but it really is.
00:05:40 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And but you you talked about how you related back to safety and security of your person and I want you to share that just a little bit again here because it really impacted me even on stage. I was just I was so taken aback by the connection that you made there and I hope the rest.
00:05:55 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Of the room caught it when you did it.
00:05:56 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So yeah, so there are two faults to that. I referred to the example of people receiving letters in the mail about, you know, your data being breached at, let's say at a hospital or a or a financial institution. And then you get that letter, which by the way, I got another one.
00:06:15 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yay.
00:06:16 Speaker 3
Another one of those we regret to inform you.
00:06:21 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Well, at least they're informing.
00:06:23 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Right. And so and and we typically right, because we have had that those experience we only kind of make the connection of cybersecurity through those kind of institution.
00:06:37
Thanks.
00:06:37 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And so that was one of the experiences that I referred to. And then the other one was to illustrate how we and I consistently basis daily, we have to make risk assessments for our own safety. So I refer to the time that you know, growing up in Venezuela, even though I I grew up.
00:06:51
That's right.
00:06:57 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
For the whole the backlit that is going on right now, we were learning from the from the time I can remember about personal safety and making risk assessments, you know, depending on where, where you going, what kind of vehicle or transportation you were going to you.
00:07:16 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Choose. Then you will make the decision for personal rest. Do I, you know, put my nice jewelry on. Do I take a purse? Do I actually hide the money? No. Wearing any anything that could attract you know, attention to me. Just dress in a one way, dress in another.
00:07:36 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So because of that, I believe that I grew up with a lot of awareness in terms of security and a lot of not only risk assessment, but I tell people I who are malicious like my mind is.
00:07:52 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
I always think about the words first and then you know, and I I I I mean I have trust issues. So that's probably why I have heightened my perception about cybersecurity and relating it now to food and how.
00:08:01 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Well.
00:08:11 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yes, you know, I'm excited about all this technology. I my God, I look at that every day. I'm I'm there is if there is a tool that can help me.
00:08:20 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
We make my job easier and or my clients job easier. I definitely will recommend it. I'll definitely will adopt it, but then I do also recognize that with that comes great responsibility, which is now prevention for giving access to people that are there, thinking maliciously on how to gain.
00:08:40 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Economic, you know, they might have.
00:08:43 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Also, the intention to harm people combine us, not just the economic gain, but also might have the intention to harm people and there is a reason why the bioterrorism act was created, which was the other related, which was the the when the accident.
00:09:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And or not the accident, but the attack happened to the Twin Towers. I was actually looking at that life because I was getting my passport to come here to the US to reunite with my then husband. So all of those experiences really have put my alert cap on and basically try to alert now people. Hey, this technology is great.
00:09:21 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yeah, be careful.
00:09:22 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
They said, you know, another fault to that that we have to be aware.
00:09:22 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah.
00:09:25 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Thus.
00:09:26 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, that's that's all right. And you're definitely in good company. Well for the listeners here. We're all very security minded or as you say maliciously minded or and and it's funny because I often say that experiences in your life inform how you view the world, of course. But people forget that where you lived and the culture you grew up in. Also as an informant.
00:09:46 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And I do think that being of a security mindset in general, a nicer way to put it is not a bad way to be. I find that it helps heightened curiosity. You're always curious. Like, why would somebody do something like that or?
00:09:58 Kristin Demoranville (host)
What if they could do it like that, or that's interesting? I wonder how that works. I think that is part of the reason why a lot of us love being in the industry, whether we admit it or not to ourselves or others. I think we really enjoy the curiosity moments and the problem solving. And I know that This is why I love the food industry so much, because there's so much of that on the food safety, food security and food defense side.
00:10:18 Kristin Demoranville (host)
You're always kind of trying to figure out the the INS and outs of how food can be changed and manipulated and adulterated, and who, why and and those answers are sometimes really.
00:10:29 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Hard, so I appreciate you thinking like that and keeping food safe, because I think that's great. I I think everybody else would agree with that and I loved that part of the talk so much because it it just really ground and resonated with me on a personal level. And I could see in the crowd it did for others as well the the whole like, yeah, maybe we should think like that or that's interesting because they already.
00:10:49 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Are they just don't realize it.
00:10:50 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That it's part of the process. I was glad that we had questions when we were there. I think what I'm worried about when I start.
00:10:56 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Bouting off security processes or strategies is that they're just going to go. Eww. It's more work for me. I don't wanna deal with this and I'm just trying to roll it into their normal day activities. So could you give an example of something that you've done in your career now that you've kind of already changed your security mindset despite the fact that your precondition to have a security mindset anyways, but how you've rolled it into your?
00:11:17 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Next, processes with your clients and even in any work you're doing now of how you can remind people to pay attention to cyber security while they're doing their food safety audits.
00:11:26 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So that's interesting because prior to the actual conference, I took the class for the intentional adulteration rule and it was an eye opener for me, honestly speaking. So the nature of the industry, to be honest with you is to comply with whatever is in the regulations.
00:11:46
MHM.
00:11:47 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Which is the minimum requirement now with GSI and globalization since the 2000s. Now they think a little bit more globally and the standards actually provide a little bit more in depth programs that you need including food defense.
00:12:00
All right.
00:12:01 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
But when we looked at the intentional adulteration rule, the at the time that the regulation was enacted or written or put into effect, cybersecurity was there. But it wasn't a threat, really, for the food industry, because the technology was still being developed in 2015.
00:12:21 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Even though we had advanced a lot into the Internet and all the the technology, but really these AI and all these other, you know automated processes.
00:12:33 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
We're not really well developed, so at the time, the current thought of the FDA was physical, right, physical and insiders, not outsiders, because a lot of people were aware of the outsiders. So we have strong gatekeeping on that. But and I still find.
00:12:44
So much.
00:12:53 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
When I do my assessments, a lot of weakness.
00:12:55 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
On that as well, but.
00:12:56 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah.
00:12:57 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
They focus the the regulation really on the insider attack and the physical opportunities that people will have to contaminate the food. Yeah. Which again at the time was was what we were facing. But now, you know, combining that knowledge.
00:13:17 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And having clients approaching us with food defense vulnerability assessments. Now I have to bring that other piece. Hey. Yeah, the regulation doesn't say this, but do you have this possibility? How automated is your process? And it's not just being automated as to just push a button and it gets upon going.
00:13:37 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Is that reliable on a source where you have to be connected to the Internet?
00:13:43
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:13:43 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Right, because it is just automation that you just push a button, but everything is just just too.
00:13:49 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Get the equipment going but and there's not really anything that allows anybody from the of the web to go in. The threat is not necessarily there, but if this systems which we are gearing to be more and more into that type of web related systems.
00:14:08 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Especially now with the traceability rule that is requiring the industry to be more professional at traceable.
00:14:16 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Nobody you will find and and for the last, I would say, couple of years since 2022 that people became more aware of the disability rule, a lot of companies pushing AI for data traceability and so because of that. Now the threat it increases and we're not talking about one specific sector.
00:14:35
Right.
00:14:38 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
The food industry, like when we look at the food disability list, we have a lot and that expands to a lot of company.
00:14:46 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So now the threats even increase. So so that's how I basically when I have clients, I give them that, hey, by the way, do you have these? Let's look at cybersecurity now.
00:14:46
Right.
00:14:59 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, I think it's good to get ahead of it too. And then, you know, have a conversation with the cyber team to understand how they interact with the food technology. It's it's it goes beyond a lot because the cyber physical space in general is still really confusing to a lot of people. How you can have that button you push, but it also could be pushed via a phone or in a computer, in another room. It doesn't always have to be connected to the Internet.
00:15:06 Speaker 3
Right.
00:15:17 Speaker 3
Right.
00:15:21 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Could be connected on an internal network that allows you to push a button.
00:15:24 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And you're 2 miles away from the line because some of these factories are huge. I think that it it's partly been created not just for food volume production, but also employee safety because it's not exactly safe to necessarily be in some of these facilities in the way that they are sometimes depending on the process that it's in. But I think what's interesting is how.
00:15:45 Kristin Demoranville (host)
We just chucked tech at things and then we expect it not to be an attack vector. I always find that really interesting, right? But it would be the same. As, you know, food safety protocols. Let's throw this onto a belt and not.
00:15:58 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Clean it. It's how I feel about the same kind of concept. It's gross. So the traceability rule is really interesting because it really does touch over a lot of things, not just food we eat ingest because we're eating dinner or lunch or breakfast. It's also it covers over, you know, consumer goods, the CPG's and things like that, whether it's vitamins or supplements or.
00:16:16
Yeah.
00:16:17 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Some deodorant. You know, those kind of things have to be tested because they're coming in contact with US pet food, you name it. Any of that, it's going to be a traceability rules and it's very daunting because traceability is huge. How do you trace the raw ingredient that went to one particular batch of cookies that shouldn't have nuts? But that facility that sent in?
00:16:38 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That particular ingredient had came from a nut factory and tracing all that back, it's very daunting. So yes, AI and machine learning are going to be paramount in tackling that issue. But as we know, and you've already said, the cloud and other places are really dangerous places because we still don't know how to protect them fully. So having an awareness of it, let's let's be proactive.
00:16:58 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Rather than reactive, and I think.
00:17:00 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Food industry is really good about being reactive. They're really good in a crisis, generally speaking, because we don't want people to die. But being proactive is sort of a hard change mindset and I'm sure you have some stories about that and you've seen it. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
00:17:15 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yeah, I can give you particular experience that I had and I give you my classes very well. So and that has prepared the industry and have taught us over time not just with this incident but others that you know we do need to look at other things, not just the traditional factors or indicators that we.
00:17:32
MHM.
00:17:34 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Typically look at.
00:17:35 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So in 2000.
00:17:36 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Six, there was a carrot juice recall perfectly.
00:17:38 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's right.
00:17:39 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Line them and at that time up to that point, clustering both linen was not a hazard to be considering carrot juice. Even though we were aware that it could be possible at present, but because the carrot juice was intended to be consumed refrigerated, then refrigeration was.
00:17:57 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Hmm.
00:17:59 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
The.
00:18:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Control that we had for the Clostridium botulinum to basically remain correlated and non pathogenic. Well we had in that year couple of outliers of people that consumed the juice and left it unrefrigerated for extended period of time. So with that happened.
00:18:18 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Girls.
00:18:20 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Obviously the juice reach temperatures where the Clostridium now is, pours will germinate and generate the vegetative cells and then the multiplication led to the both.
00:18:29 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Realism talks into being the juice and people get Botulism. So now because of that, when we do hazard analysis and we describe product and and we develop our food safety plan, we look at is there a possibility of a threat for unintended use of the product.
00:18:33 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Super gross.
00:18:50 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah.
00:18:51 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
You know, and so things like that. It's what you know, those incidents is what have given us the learning. Unfortunately, I can tell you that as you mentioned.
00:19:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
The industry and the the policies actually that are created, they are reactive.
00:19:07 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Fisma came as a reaction to in a corporation of America. Yeah, right, right. And so now right now we have boars head, which now touches the USDA. And I'm pretty sure policies will come out from that.
00:19:12 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Which is awful.
00:19:21 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Incident as well, but my question for anyone in the industry and the government is like why do we have to wait until things happen to actually foresee that this might have been an issue in the case of carriage, we knew Clostridium was possible because I mean care grows on the ground where those gross premiums.
00:19:43 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
In the ground, right. And so, why didn't we think about possible, you know, misuse of product prior to the incident?
00:19:44 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah.
00:19:53
MHM.
00:19:54 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And and it's, it goes back to like the lettuce issue, right? The fact that they haven't regulated livestock yards to be moved away from lettuce to stop contaminated with E coli is absurd that we have. I mean, how long have we been dealing with E coli and lettuce and other leafy greens years?
00:20:09 Kristin Demoranville (host)
So it's you're right.
00:20:10 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And he.
00:20:11 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
If it comes to down, it comes down to at any area in the food industry or any industry or any business, it's come down to risk assessment and for much of that seem like a burden. Like you mentioned that's going to create more issues. Fact is that we as professionals and as an industry.
00:20:21
Sorry.
00:20:33 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Have the need to have the commitment to keep people safe, and I always tell people or tell people when I train them and I still train when I tell them when I train them on my end.
00:20:36 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Right.
00:20:45 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Specifically, at the sites, I would say if you are making a product and you're not able to buy that product at the store and feed it to your family, then we have a problem because that means we don't have the the tasks or the procedures correctly done or something is happening.
00:21:05 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
In the inside that we are not aware of, you know about it and you know that you're not. The product is.
00:21:10 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Not safe.
00:21:11 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
It's not safe for your family, then it's not gonna be safe for the public, and we need to know.
00:21:16 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Nobody, because systems are not flawless. Let's make it clear. And if we're making a mistake or somebody's not following a procedure, we need to know about it, and we need to correct it. And we need to find the root cause. If we have to. So the incident doesn't happen again. What we cannot afford is to have product out there that is going to make at some point.
00:21:21 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's true. That's very true.
00:21:38 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Somebody sick, like a, you know, comes kind of like the Russian roulette, right? Waiting to see if the person is gonna get sick. If we are not aware of the process of of the issue or the incident, and we cannot put the process back into.
00:21:43
Yeah.
00:21:54 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Place so the food is.
00:21:56 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Safe. Then it becomes a Russian roulette and and it goes beyond Trump as well for the brand. Because every time this incident happened, what happened? The brand takes a hit. Look at McDonald's now with the onions and tailor farms. Yes, they're big companies. They're gonna get through this.
00:21:58 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, sure.
00:22:11 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yep, exactly.
00:22:15 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
I'm telling you, they're gonna get through this, but there is a financial hit. There is a brand.
00:22:20 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Trust.
00:22:21
M.
00:22:22 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Right. I can tell you from the personal experience when we had that big spinach recall back in 2000.
00:22:28 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Six as well, the two.
00:22:29 Speaker 3
Thousands was really bad for us.
00:22:31 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, it really was right. Oh.
00:22:33 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So I I mean I'm I'm avid spinach eater and when we had that Rico for the spinach I stopped eating spinach.
00:22:33 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Memories.
00:22:43 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
For three years.
00:22:44 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Maybe in in the food industry didn't trust at that point. So again, you know it's it's not just.
00:22:47 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Finish.
00:22:48 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah.
00:22:53 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Getting people sick. But then there's other ramifications to that. So the idea is to be preventive.
00:22:59 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's right. That's right. And then also you can't control consumer behavior, but trust me, we try to because we don't want.
00:23:05 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Them to eat.
00:23:06 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Warm carrot juice that causes issues and other things you were making me have a lot of memories while you're talking about learning how quality, actually, how they determine how long something can stay on the shelf like shelf life testing.
00:23:19 Kristin Demoranville (host)
For preservatives and food, and I didn't know that until I was in a a quality lab the first time and it was frosting. And I think, why is this frosting over here? It looks like it has mold on it. They're like, oh, no, that's a test sample. But now I'm curious. You know, you tell me what?
00:23:20
Oh yeah.
00:23:33 Kristin Demoranville (host)
So they were like, yeah, we're testing the preservatives inside this food to see how long the shelf life is. So we can label it properly. And I thought to myself, why am I so stupid? And I didn't know if they did that, you know, cause as a consumer, why would I know that? And we're so far removed from our food that we have no idea even how it's how the simple things are made and and whatnot.
00:23:53 Kristin Demoranville (host)
It's it's crazy and I think the thing.
00:23:55 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That frustrates me.
00:23:56 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Who is? We have stupid problems that could be fixed very easily, but we continue on because we just rather be reactive and proactive. That's number one. But #2, our food system is so complicated now it's so complicated. The food supply system is the most complicated system on the planet. We did this to ourselves. The traceability is going to be a spider web and not even a well organized spider web like it's going to be like 18.
00:24:18 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Spiders and one spider web. I'm sorry if people have arachnophobia, but it's it's true. It's so messed up, really, and I I feel for all the food safety teams because this is a this is a really big task.
00:24:29 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Task and the fact that you make it personal when you talk to these people. When you train, I think that's the best way to win hearts and minds, to start having people realize and be curious because I always say for me it's not about the data. For me, it's about safeguarding lives because the things that I work with and the systems that I'm in, whether it's a physical system or a digital system or working with people it.
00:24:43
Graph.
00:24:50 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Always goes back to saving someone's life. Just one thing that I did could either make a break that moment, or when I go through a risk assessment. If I didn't talk to the food safety people in a.
00:25:00 Kristin Demoranville (host)
New production facility or a farm? What am I doing that doesn't make any sense? Because that's what the product is. It'd be like not talking to a scientist if you were going through any type of really cool engineering tech that you were working on, it's crazy to think that again, we have such a disconnect between our industries and they're so siloed that when you start to actually go across them as a disruptor like you and I are.
00:25:02
Right.
00:25:20 Kristin Demoranville (host)
People are like, wait, what? And it takes a couple of minutes and once they get it, they they know. And now I have people walking up to me, and I'm sure you will too. At conferences you haven't already to say something like I've been talking to my cyber security people. I'm like, great, are they being nice to you? And they're like, yeah, they're really excited. We're working together on risk.
00:25:35 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Holy crap. It's amazing. Like, that's all I want to hear because that's that's what it is. That's what we need to do. Looking ahead, I know we talked about AI briefly, but is there any other trends in technology that you think that are coming down the line that we should be kind of keeping an eye on? I know that there's a lot of questions about what's going to happen with FDA and USDA.
00:25:55 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Question with the new administration coming in, but I do think that obviously blockchain is still being adopted very quickly, but is there anything else you're seeing on a food safety perspective? Any new tech that's coming there on that?
00:26:05 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Side.
00:26:06 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Not in particular that you know I'm.
00:26:09 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Whereas that raises.
00:26:11 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Much concern as what you mentioned, the blockchain and the AI machine learning, but I'm sure somebody's creating something somewhere.
00:26:20 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's right.
00:26:21 Speaker 3
Here might be a different OK.
00:26:24 Kristin Demoranville (host)
It's true. It's true. Yeah, there's a lot of really interesting tech that I'm sure is coming up here of some new piece of technology that's doing something in the food industry. And I'm just like, whoa, really we're doing that already? OK, sometimes it sounds very like star trekking and you're just like, what? OK.
00:26:29 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Day.
00:26:41 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
It's it's funny when I mention at the conference that, you know, look at the movie I.
00:26:48 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Robot. I mean, what was the latest toy? Is that like a week before the conference, Elon Musk shows his new toys.
00:26:49 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's right.
00:26:58 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, the bus thing and then the the other car. Yeah, that was.
00:27:02 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So I I I I I told people I don't think you know robots are going to take over the world, but we're definitely living in a different place and I think these movies as far as you know, they were like unconceivable in reality we are currently living that reality.
00:27:20 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Yeah, that's true. And I think we're living.
00:27:23 Kristin Demoranville (host)
It quite quick.
00:27:24 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Really, I just. I just heard they just released a satellite into orbit that's made out of wood. So it burns when it comes down to the atmosphere. And doesn't, you know, spray metal everywhere. It hurt people. And I thought to myself, why aren't we talking about this more? It was a Japanese satellite. And I thought that's amazing. Hello. That's the kind of stuff I want to hear more about because that makes sense to me. Like for betterment of humanity.
00:27:24 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yes.
00:27:44 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Before we go here, I I want to know if well, let me move more specific for the listeners wanting to learn more about food defense in general and food safety. Do you have any resources you could point people to because?
00:27:56 Kristin Demoranville (host)
I mean I can put everything in the show notes, but you're the expert.
00:27:59 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yes.
00:28:00 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
The FDA website, of course, they have a lot of guidances. They actually have a food defense plan builder that allows you to navigate through the actual regulatory requirements. Now because of based on our conversation.
00:28:16 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
And how the regulation was made at a time where technology was still in its infancy when it came to all of the things that we have talked here.
00:28:26 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
There I would not just relied on the plan building itself, but also you know, additional risk assessments that are not covered by the plan builder. They're actually there is a database of mitigation strategies also at the FDA website that you can actually reach out.
00:28:43
Hmm.
00:28:46 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Or or. Look at research for possible mitigation strategies as you do your vulnerability assessment.
00:28:53 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
So again, the FDA website is, it's a great resource when it comes to food.
00:28:58 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Defense.
00:28:59 Kristin Demoranville (host)
That's great. I'll put all that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed sharing the stage with you. I find that you are such a wealth of knowledge and you make it easy for me to understand food defense strategies as well. Please do look at that FDA website, especially if you're doing risk assessments and food factories or any other places that are related.
00:29:17 Kristin Demoranville (host)
To food CPG.
00:29:18 Kristin Demoranville (host)
'S You can take that into your assessment.
00:29:20 Kristin Demoranville (host)
As a security assessment, I mean secret sauce. That's what I do too, but it also helps you understand the the consumer and the customer that you're working with.
00:29:29 Kristin Demoranville (host)
And I think that that's more important is the understanding of what's happening around you rather than just I'm going in to do an assessment like a robot. And you don't want that, you want to actually have conversations and meet people and understand the process because it's people and process at the end of the day, not just the tech and the stuff. Thank you so much for being here. I'm sure we're going to have you back on at some point too, because there's so much.
00:29:50 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Coming in the food news sector for sure.
00:29:52 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Yeah. Thank you for having me. And likewise, it was a pleasure to Co present with you. I have learned a lot from you from the short interactions that we have had. So I'm looking forward to be working with you in the future as well.
00:30:05 Kristin Demoranville (host)
Amazing. Alright, thank you.
00:30:07 Radojka Rodriguez (guest)
Thank you.
